An Ethics Question
posted by: HerberWellss in General, Shoe Advice on August 28th, 2010
The other day I went shopping with R5Friend and R5Daughter. We were all goofing around, doing some window shopping and some serious shopping. R5Friend spent about an hour and half trying on shoes, only to tell the salesclerk, “Thanks, but no thanks.” She told us, as we were walking out of the store, that she was going to go to Amazon and save about $20 per pair.
R5Daughter didn’t say anything at the time, but when we were alone, she went ballistic. Daughter felt the time my friend took trying on shoes, then not purchasing anything was the equivalent of stealing $50 from the salesclerk’s purse. She thought the hour and half spent on my friend could have been spent helping someone who WOULD purchase something or finishing other necessary tasks.
My friend, a teacher has never worked a commission job, regards shopping as a thing to do when she wants to waste time. My daughter on the other hand, HAS worked commission sales and sees what we – as business owner s- do for our customers and how we regard customers who ask for a special item then ultimately go somewhere else because the price is $2 cheaper on a $25 purchase. Don’t get me started on comparison shoppers who don’t compare the weight or size of the item, because that sends me off on my own tirade.
So the question I pose is: Is it right to try on shoes in a full service store such as Saks or Nordstroms, then order online because it is cheaper? The second question I pose is: How much cheaper does it have to be for you to go elsewhere, and do you include shipping costs when you start comparing?
Now, this is not an anti-online post. Both Galligator and I are regular online shoppers. That is not the issue.
I would like to know what you all think. Was my friend in the right or in the wrong?
28 Comments
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November 30, 2012 at 1:48 am, oopcvvrh said:
1FLoly ktesyoungizp
November 24, 2012 at 5:27 pm, Millionterefe said:
Posted on I’d must test with you here, which isn’t something I uuaslly do! I get pleasure from reading a post that will make folks think. Thanks for permitting me to remark!
February 07, 2012 at 6:12 am, Barratts shoes said:
Its a tough one to answer as shopping online is often cheaper but when you add the price of postage and packing it can be sometimes equivalent in value to buying from a store. If I go to a store and take up an hour and a half of someones time I would probably feel inclined to buy something before I consider online unless big savingsbates
October 26, 2011 at 1:42 am, christianlouboutin said:
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September 09, 2010 at 5:56 am, astrid said:
I also think it’s not fair. I don’t like to waste someone’s time when I don’t intend to profit them. I actually prefer buying things locally, supporting the sales people and the stores. Purchasing the shoes and be able to wear them instantly is a good feeling. Plus I could check if everything is alright with the shoes and fit.
On a very few occasion, the local stores could be a lot more expensive (+ 30% in that case). Then I would feel it’s such a ripoff to buy the shoes from them and I’ll buy it online instead.
September 03, 2010 at 5:39 am, Marie said:
As a SA in a shoe store (and on just commission as well), I do want to clarify that we understand people who are just checking their size in a brand that is perhaps new to them, because they found it cheaper online. This can take less than five minutes, one box of shoes, and done. We know that if you don't buy it now, you might come back to us another time.
The problem is that most people will end up requesting multiple styles and colors and other brands, and before you know it an hour has gone by and they say "Well I just wanted to check that first one so I can order it online. Bye!". That's what will bring out the hostile side of your previously friendly SA.
September 02, 2010 at 3:57 am, ShoppingQueen4755 said:
i have worked many sales jobs with commission and waisting a sales persons time is just not right. most are making way below the min wage and the rest is made up with commission. sales people do not make much money so when they can sell a customer a ton of shoes they will for the commission. also they have goals to meet, if they dont meet their goal they dont get comission. its sad how retailers get away with it. i only buy shoes in shoes because my feet are wide and odd and dont fit in most shoes. as a customer be respectful to the person who is helping you out because if they lose money because of you, they may refuse to help you out in the future. as a sales person i try everything i can to please the customer but some times customers come in with the attitude that you will not satisfy them. just regard your sales person the way you would want to if you worked in sales. we are not your salves and we want to help you as much as possible. also we are NOT the people to complain about prices, call corporate for those isses, becuase as sales people we do not make the prices, thast why we are working the floor
September 01, 2010 at 5:32 am, PaleFenix said:
I regularly buy both in stores and online. I still prefer the store though. I have a lovely salesperson from Nordstrom who calls me when there are sales or a new product he thinks I'll love and he sets them aside in my size. Then he spends time getting other shoes and the right sizes for me til I am happy. I would never waste his time doing that if I were then going to turn around and buy online. I am happy to spend a little more in the store for the customer service and care.
August 31, 2010 at 12:32 pm, Vodkaine said:
Okay. That may sound stupid but ..
In my opinion if you're about to send a pretty Penny on Louboutin shoes, it's useful to go to a proper store to check if a style you're ready to purchase online is OKAY for you (after P&P cpmparision.. ). For example.. Buying Pigalle 120 as an impulsive buy without knowing your size with this particular brand/style and so on.. MAKES sense.
Having said that, the price might be real cheaper.. otherwise we all know there's nothing in comparison to the feeling you got when you just self indulged in a pair of cinderella babies. (With THAT moment when you got all other costomers compliments.. blahblah)
Also, I once did gave a horrible time to an awful SA who considered herself more important than the queen of england. To that one i've been Lucifer in Choos. Fo' real mama.
August 31, 2010 at 12:23 am, Suzanne aka Punk Gla said:
I understand trying to save money, but it's simply bad manners to waste so much of someone's time. I used to own a brick and mortar shop and would have people come in to get my recommendations on specific books for them to read and what not to waste their money on. They would take up huge hunks of my precious time, use my expertise, have the book in their hand, then say they would buy it online because they could save 10%! Not a tinge of remorse or even a thank you would be the final blow. To take the issue further it's even ecologically irresponsible to do this sort of thing. The shoes have already made their carbon footprint to get to the store where you tried them on. By ordering online you're creating a whole new carbon footprint to get one pair to your home. As another poster remarked, its just as easy to buy online in the first place from some place with free returns, why waste someones time and create more damage to the planet in the process?
August 30, 2010 at 4:45 am, r5bales said:
Wow. Your comments are all interesting. I tend to agree with Ann in that I keep my cute shoe girl in mind when I look at shoes, and she always sends me me a thank you note when I buy.
August 30, 2010 at 4:29 am, Ann said:
Taking advantage of anyone's time is disrespectful. Period. And establishing a good relationship with your salesperson can save you boat loads of money when it comes time for the sales. Chances are your friend isn't going to have anyone slipping her size in the back until she can get there, when the 50% off sale starts! You get what you give!
August 30, 2010 at 3:49 am, Anna said:
I am like Gracia, I will try on a few shoes in stores and then go online to buy if I can find them at a much deeper discount. But I don't ask for help, but if a sales associate approaches me and I have a question or need a shoe, I will let them help. But I don't spend an hour of their time. Nowadays it is nearly impossible for stores to beat the prices of online retailers and private sales sites, so I don't think it's wrong to go in a store to just try different shoes on. But I think it is wrong to waste a sales associate's time if you have no intention of buying in the store. Now another point to make here is that many times, sales associates aren't just helping one customer at a time, so as long as you're not demanding a lot of attention from them and taking them away from potential customers, I don't see anything wrong with it.
August 29, 2010 at 3:51 pm, galligator said:
I have unapproved a few heated and/or inappropriate comments. Suffice it to say that I believe we can discuss this issue & even disagree without resorting to namecalling and offensive or inflammatory comments.
(April, your comments were removed simply to avoid confusion as the over-the-line original comments to which you were replying are no longer showing. But you are correct that we like to keep things on a polite & respectful basis here, even when we are not always in agreement on opinions.)
-G
August 29, 2010 at 1:11 pm, Shomore said:
First, R5 – This is a great topic you bring up.
IMO, in this economy and considering R5Friend's occupation, I can understand why a consumer would try to save money if they could.
But I must say that salesperson ABSOLUTELY deserved the commission, especially for 1.5 hours worth of time. It makes sense that a B&M store would have to charge more for the shoe to pay for rent, there is value in the customer service provided, that salesperson also has bills to pay, and probably lost out on commission from other sales he/she could have made.
What store did this occur in? At Nordstroms, you can do a pretty hassle free price match. This way, it's a win for the salesperson who gets the sale and for R5Friend who gets the sale price. At the very least, I wish R5Friend was upfront with the salesperson from the start. It's good manners and that salesperson might have been able to price match or offer some sort of discount which isn't displayed. That actually happened to me once at a boutique when I was borderline about a purchase and the salesperson just offered up a discount that I couldn't refuse.
August 29, 2010 at 11:33 am, Bronwyn said:
Where I live salespeople are not generally paid on commission, so the case is a little different I suppose. I regularly go into shops and try shoes on without any intention of buying, but I DO always tell the salesperson that's what I'm doing. It's just manners really, and letting them know that should a paying customer walk in they're free to go serve them. On the other hand, I've more than once ended up buying something anyway. I mostly buy things online that are hard to find physically where I live. Except books. For books I read the reviews on Amazon, then purchase from the Book Depository (which has few reviews) because it's cheaper for me. And gets here quicker.
August 29, 2010 at 7:32 am, Sabrina said:
@april, first of all…Jewish is not a race it's a religion, secondly, you know that stereotype of them came to be because it's true! Really, lighten up, the truth sucks to hear sometimes. Bye
August 29, 2010 at 7:15 am, april said:
that type of talk is not appreciated here.
August 29, 2010 at 7:14 am, april said:
Sabrina- stop being a freakin' racist.
August 29, 2010 at 7:03 am, Sabrina said:
@ MC, you are only proving the point of the rest of the posters who feel that people who would behave like that and deliberately waste somebody's work time (they probably have bills to pay and/or chldren to feed, etc.) are inconsiderate, selfish, ignorant a-holes. YOU INCLUDED, you clearly have no consideration for anybody other than yourself and were obviously raised without any social decorum, manners or common decency. I'd go so far as to bet that you're jewish, I mean, they all behave in the same revolting manner.
August 29, 2010 at 3:46 am, NewStyle Shoes said:
I am one that totally understands the customers need to find value in todays challenging economy and marketplace. However, please remember that the experience and service provided at a shoe store can be likened to a restaurant waiter or waitress, comission, tips, they are the samething, and no one would sit in a restaurant for an hour or two and walk out with out leaving a tip.
August 29, 2010 at 12:16 am, MC said:
The sales people are there to help and serve you even if you dont end up buying anything, its their job. A lot of people try on shoes in-store just for the purpose of finding their size and then go buy them online for the lower price, there's nothing wrong with that.
August 28, 2010 at 11:53 am, Seller of Shoes said:
I'm so thrilled that you brought this topic up. As a commission seller of shoes at one of the stores mentioned, this hits close to home. We completely understand that some people will try and not buy, and others will buy three pair. It is a part of the job, and we expect that it will happen daily.
As stated in the original story, the line gets crossed when someone is shopping with no intention of buying from us and wastes more than just a few moments of our time. You saw the price tag on the shoe, you know what it will cost you. Don't spend the next hour-plus trying on things that you have no intention of buying from us. We are on straight commission and we do feel the results of an hour or two with no sales.
A lot of people intend to buy things but then the shoe just doesn't work out, and that's ok. I do the same thing when I shop. But I've helped ladies (and I use that term loosely) for over an hour, only to have them tell me they purposely left their wallet at home because they had no business buying shoes that day. While I'm on the topic, please don't send one associate to get a shoe for you, then ask a second associate for something else. Work with just one person and save your questions for them.
Sorry, this turned into more of a rant than I meant it to be.
August 28, 2010 at 10:51 am, galligator said:
I look at shopping as a value as a whole. There is a value to the service that you don't necessarily get online that I try to take into account as part of the in-store shopping experience. I happen to purchase products both in-stores and online depending on a variety of factors. In fact, if there were more styles available locally, I would prefer to be able to get most of them that way & support the local tax base. But, I live in a small town, so do aggressive online comparison shopping for items I can't find nearby. In fact, some of my best shoe deals have been from Macy's sale days. While I don't feel guilty leaving without purchasing something if nothing fits right, I don't generally actually try a shoe on in-store if I have no intention of purchasing a pair or two if they look and feel right. So, I guess I'm on the side of 'don't waste time if you aren't going to credit that time spent is a service that has a true value to you as the customer'. After all, if it's only about the price, you can order those shoes from many online retailers that offer free returns, try it on at home on a soft, clean, carpeted surface for 30 minute or so & have made the same decision without knowingly used the brick and mortar's valuable time (sales time=asset). It seems similar to people who ask lawyers for free advice, hairdresser friends for quick trims, etc. There are always some people who undervalue the services and expertise of others. That salon try-on experience adds to my ability to make the shopping decision. Which might explain why, back in February, I walked through the Barney's Seattle (mini) shoe salon but didn't ask to try on even one pair of Louboutin's, in spite of my curiosity on whether/how that coveted brand would fit my feet. It just didn't seem right on a day when I wasn't intending to buy anything. If I had been in the market for anything on display in the salon (CL or otherwise), that hesitation would have vanished.
Me, Ramble much?
August 28, 2010 at 3:14 am, Melissa said:
The price difference would have to be at least $30-50 cheaper. By ordering online, you're going to be charged $10 shipping anyway, so usually I just buy it at the store. I'm okay with wasting a salesclerk's time for one or two pairs of shoes, but for an hour? That is definitely selfish. Giving your friend the benefit of the doubt though, I'm sure it wasn't her goal to go and waste a salesclerk's time. She probably didn't even think about it.
August 28, 2010 at 2:33 am, AEJ said:
Your friend could just as easily tried on the shoes without imposing too much on the salesperson's time, and then gone and ordered online. There is no requirement to buy when you're in a store, but if you take up a ton of time, there is an expectation.
August 28, 2010 at 12:14 am, Valentina said:
I have never worked in retail or on comission…but…ask you friend how SHE would feel if it had been her who had just wasted an hour and a half of her comission paid time at work on a 'customer' who had no intention of purchasing anything. I feel that your friend was being self absorbed, ignorant and rather rude.
August 27, 2010 at 9:48 pm, Gracia said:
If I am able to try on a pair of shoes in stores and get them online for much cheaper (>$50 saved), I'll try my best to waste as little of the SA's time as possible, and sometimes I don't even have the heart to ask them to get a pair in my size from the stock room.